[smufl-discuss] Re: Glyph registration proposal

[Bob Hamblok]

On 08 Jul 2013, at 18:00, Joseph Berkovitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Jul 8, 2013, at 11:39 AM, "Daniel Spreadbury" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>
>>>> I am not sure if this should apply for clefs. My intuition is,
>>> that the clefs should be placed so, that the note that the clef
>>> refers to, is on the baseline (e.g. F-clef placed so, that one dot
>>> is above and the second below the baseline). Then, there would be no
>>> need for additional vertical adjustment for clef changes/cue clefs.
>>> (Even if clef changes would be encoded, there are still cue clefs to
>>> be positioned correctly)
>>>
>>> This idea also works (and is in fact the approach taken internally
>>> by Noteflight). But for clefs that don't refer to a "target note"
>>> such as TAB or percussion clefs, such a rule could become a bit
>>> arbitrary. So I don't have a strong feeling about it, either way.
>>
>> For what it's worth, Opus and Petrucci follow Emil's recommendation, while
>> Sonata follows Joe's proposal. Perhaps it does make sense for us to follow
>> the majority rule here? I think this change would get my vote.
>
> Actually I'd like to join you and Emil on this one. I wasn't sure how people would feel about the target-note idea.
>
> It also makes the handling of the C clefs more elegant.
>
> So maybe we should make this change unless additional folks pipe up and disagree. Note that this requires the spec to explicitly state that all "target-note-free" clefs such as the percussion or TAB clefs should place the baseline at their vertical center.

We @neoScores also prefer and support the "target-note" idea for clefs.

>
>>
>>>>> TIME SIGNATURES
>>>
>>> I agree with your point -- I think this was an oversight in my
>>> proposal. You are correct, time signature digits conceptually fit
>>> within a vertical extent, or are centered around some baseline.
>>
>> How should fonts that require or prefer larger digits work? For example,
>> several handwritten fonts feature time signature digits that protrude
>> above and below the staff, but still abut at the middle staff line. If
>> these digits were drawn centered on the 2nd and 4th staff lines per Emil's
>> proposal, this wouldn't be possible. Unless I'm missing something (which
>> is by no means unlikely).
>
> Hmm. I think you're right. Maybe we should leave things as is (i.e. digits have the usual textual-glyph relationship to baseline) and require apps to use bounding boxes to arrange digits on either side of the staff center line, with some padding.
>
> I also think it would be useful if external metadata could supply an overall ascent metric for time signature digits.
>
> [RESTS]
>
>>> I think this would also be a good change to my proposal.
>>
>> I'm not sure about this. The positioning of e.g. a bar rest is different
>> when on a one-line staff than on a five-line staff, since a bar rest hangs
>> from a one-line staff, but a half rest sits on top of a one-line staff,
>> which is the exact opposite of their normal positions relative to each
>> other in the more common five-line staff case. For what it's worth, Joe's
>> proposal also appears to be the convention followed by Opus, Sonata and
>> Petrucci.
>>
>> My vote would be to stick to Joe's original proposal in this area.
>
> This is a good argument. Application code needs to make some of these fine-tuning decisions for various size staves. So I suppose I will stick with my original proposal too.
>
> …joe
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